SELC - Yes or No?
It is probably good idea to write about our experience with Sydney English Language Centre (SELC) after we spent there six long months.
The main aim of this small article is to share our feelings and maybe give some recommendations, which could help to all of you who plan to study at SELC or at any other language school in Sydney. To make it available to more people, not only to Czechs, it is written in English.
First of all - we can't say that SELC is a bad school because we don't have any personal experience with other schools. Many times we've heard (from agents, teachers) that SELC is better than other schools. This; however, doesn't mean that it's a perfect school, at least not for us and a lot of other people as well. We started to complain probably during the second week in the school and complained about various things several times. According to our experience, we think it's really good to complain when you aren't happy, because if nothing else you'll practise conversation with such people like school director, studying counsellor and the others for how long you want to speak.
There is everything planned in three-month cycles. It means that after 3 months everything starts again, everything is repeated. So if you're staying at school longer than 3 months and you stay on the same level you'll do the same book, the same excercises, you'll repeat what you've learned in last three months. This could be also true even when you'll change levels, as a lot of things are used accross different levels. The levels at SELC are beginners, pre-intermediate, intermediate, upper-intermediate, superintermediate and advanced. We're somewhere about on the lower upper-intermediate level in Czech Republic, but according the entrance test we were sent directly to the advanced class (the highest one available there) and had to stay there our whole studies (6 months). The advanced class actually doesn't mean something special - we had a few classmates, who had perfect grammar and vocabulary but weren't able to speak at all. Quite shocking, when even teachers had problems to understand them.
So, the General English is not the best course if you are on advanced level. Luckily, they have other courses as well and we can recommend the special course - EAP (English for Academic Purposes) and, probably, the Cambridge Course (we didn't do this one). The EAP is supposed to be more about writting which sounds terrible, but it was really good experience and we spoke a lot as well. We had good luck with teachers in this course and we really enjoyed it. As far as the General English should be focused on listening and speaking, we had the impression that in the EAP we practised speaking and listening even more.
The teachers are the most important point - some of them are really good, the others; however, have long teaching experience but they don't know how to teach at all. Just one example - one of the teachers was so successful that he discouraged almost all students from comming to his lessons, he finished his second day with us just with two students (just two of us had the courage to stay there).
The elective classes are supposed to be a pleasant change during the hard week. They are available from the intermediate level up. We soon realized that these classes are actually meant to be the rest for teachers. We can't say that we really learned something during the elective classes, except the Barista course, where we learned how to prepare coffee and we had a perfect teacher and made a lot of fun. However, all courses (and you can choose from Barista course, Listening and speaking, Grammar classes, Australian Studies, IELTS or TOELF preparation, Natural therapies and Movie making) look really good when they describe them. When you choose them, you realize, that description is different from practice. In practise you don't do all the things they promised to do and you just try to live through it.
Marketing is one thing in which is the SELC really good. When you see in their brochure that you will receive Barista certificate after Barista electives, that you can use videocameras to connect with home, that they will teach you use of English in practical situations, that they have a modern building, and a lot of other things as well, it seems to be a perfect school. When you choose this school you find out that the brochure is one big lie. When you ask about it you get the answer "Oh, sorry, you must understand, it's marketing." The answer was from the person on highest positions in the school. We made for us a translation of their answer: "We're really good at telling lies, we're doing a good marketing, and you are really stupid, because you choose our school and paid for it and can't do anything with it."
The building has an air-conditioning, which keeps it cool during winter and hot in summer. No, I'm not wrong, it was really cold in winter and really hot in summer. They have videocameras in business class, but you aren't allowed to use them (even if you study Bussiness course). They don't teach English in practical situations, because you are good enough to be able to use English in those situations and if you need to practise, go out and practise outside school. It's interesting, that the same thing is valid for lower classes and advanced as well, so everybody who knows a little bit English, knows how to handle all the practical situations. Also the school have a nice library, which is closed on Fridays. Of course, you can borrow books on Thursday, but we still don't understand why it's not opened on Friday. The computer rooms are opened till 5pm and during our stay the school decided to close them on Friday, because there were nobody who could look after the students using the computers. After our big and loud protests they gave up.
You will be also surprised with another two things - there are a lot of Asian people (sorry guys, nothing personal) - about 65% in total. These guys are really good in grammar and vocabulary, but most of them don't speak at all, so it is really hard to speak with them during classes and when you work with them in pair, you are in big trouble. But it's probably similar at the other schools as well. The second thing are teachers - most of them are English, so don't hope that they'll teach you something about Australia, Australian slang or anything related to Australia, even if they're living in Australia for several yars. Especially the slang is "hard to teach" as we were told when we specifically asked for it after not understanding the people in the streets and at work. It's funny that after five months one teacher was able to find several things made for this purpose - teaching Australian slang.
Very important thing is the pronunciation. Every teacher will tell you, that it is really important, that especially your's is really terrible, but that's it. Nobody will correct you almost all the time. Also a lot of them just let you speak and after everybody in class will finish their speaking they'll just tell you - OK, you are doing a lot of mistakes we have to work on it. But they'll never tell you, what mistakes you did. Of course, exceptions exist.
All in all - we could recommend this school. Just advice you to do EAP course or General English just for short time. According to other people we can recommend you the Cambridge courses. Don't expect anything special from Electives - it is just for filling space in the middle of the week. And also be prepared that first Monday of each term is free (OK, you could have grammar class or listening class, but it is usually really borring and low level) and also that last Friday of each term is shorter. Don't count this days, otherwise you'll realize that you paid a lot for free days.
We have a lot of mistakes in this short article, for sure, but we did our best. The point is we don't have the feeling that our English did some improvement during these six month at SELC. It is probably a little bit better than it was before, but not a big change. Maybe two month travelling and speaking with locals will bring us more than the time at school :-(
We were asking ourselfs many times, where is the problem? Why are we so unsatisfied? There are the possible answers: we're to old. We expected for big money high quality. We came to Asutralia to learn English not to work.
We have a big request to other unsatisfied students at SELC - we know there are many of you, you complain amongs your friends, but you should take your courage and complain in official way to achieve some change for next students. You are also welcomed to give your opinion as a comment to our article.
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SELC - Yes or No?
I wanted to go to Australia with my Girl to learn english,too, but once I had read your article I changed my minds. But what to do? I can recommend the ttp://www.isls.cz/ it is not in Australia and it only takes 3 weeks but I enjoyed it very much.
Thanks for sharing and your opinions.
SELC - Yes or No?
In the school or out, the best way to learn a language is to be with the locals as much as possible, preferably alone. Thus you are forced to speak and you learn much faster. I am not happy with my english either even though I spent some time abroad (and not a short one)....but with the family, so not speaking english all the time.
After all, it might be better to find yourself a job rather than trying to chase what probably may or may not be the best school.
SELC - Yes or No?
WHY DO TOEFL TEACHERS WEEP?
Jesus led his students up a mountain and when they had reached the top they gathered around him and he taught them many things. This is what he said:
„Blessed are the poor in spirit, blessed are the meek, blessed are the merciful, blessed are you who thirst for justice, blessed are you who are persecuted, blessed are the peacemakers“.
And Simon Peter said: „Do we have to write this stuff down?“
And Philip said: “Will this be on the test?“
And John said: „I´m sorry, would you mind repeating that?“
And Andrew said: „Do John the Baptist´s students have to learn this stuff?“
And Mathew said: „Huh?“
And Judas said: „What does this have to do with real life, anyway?“
One of the pharisees, an expert in TOEFL, had come up the mountain in order to observe Jesus. At the end of the lesson he walked over to Jesus and said: „Excuse me, I don´t see any any of this on the students´ syllabus. Please, may I see your lesson plan? Is there a summary? And where is the student guide? Are you planning to give them any follow-up assignments? And how will this affect the bell-curve?
Then Thomas, who had arrived late, and consequently missed the lesson, came over to Jesus and said: „Did we do anything important today?“
And Jesus wept.
source: { Link }
SELC - Yes or No?
Hey,
I studied at selc for one month and it was the perfect demand of time. I had great teachers, probably the best at school so I was lucky. As I didn't had enough time to prepare my english before my stay and i had to work after that month it was good to get into the language again. But i agree with martin and jana that if you do the general english course (as i did), six month are too long. I still think that doing a language course is great because you'll meet people and you'll have to speak english, sounds strange? I met so many people who spoke their native language more than english and that doesn't help to improve your skills. In spite of my last two days (boooooooring teacher => four weeks with that teacher would have been horrible, so it depends on the teacher) i had a good time there and i'd say it helped to improve my english. if you're not happy with a situation you should say it, of course. But the language school can be good or bad, you'll need to speak speak speak as much as possible. summary: 4 weeks are the right demand of time and i was incredibly lucky with the teachers and the class i had. cheers, ute
SELC - Yes or No?
i'm still studying in selc now. Fortunately, i've studied most of my time in EAP course, which they only recommanded here so i was quite satisfied. However, i partly agree with martin and jana especially about management. While im studying in selc i never felt that they develop their curriculums, as martin said, they repeat same matrials every three months, in fact, i didn't study much so the repetition was okay for me but for high advanced students it must be really boring. and sometimes i could feel the teacher didn't prepare properly for class so he/she doesn't know what he/she is doing(as i used to teach kids in my country, i can feel if they prepared). and i think as the level goes lower, the problems becomes bigger, because they do not complain nearly at all. last time, i heard from my friend he watched dvd for the lesson without teacher who left from school already due to his/her cold and then i met my friend again after few days later, he was going home during the lunch time and the reason was his teacher was sick again so the class need to watch dvd again next class and he doesn't want to watch it. and i asked him to complain it but he refused as he can't explain his feeling in English. He was an elementary(begginer)student. For begginers, watching movies whithout teachers is really useless for me it's just waste time and money. Of course, there are many good points, too in selc but i hope that anyone working in selc sees this blog. and think carefully then adapt students' advises. i'm also not young to only enjoy meeting great friends from all over the world without any concerning the problems. In conclusin, i also recommend lower or intermediate students for general class no more than 3months and then go to EAP or Cambridge course. lastly, for high advanced students, do not come to language school just go to college or tafe and so on....^^
SELC - Yes or No?
I agree with most of the things writen here. Specially when you say that 6 months is too much fucking time... OH MY GOD! thx God this is my last term here, otherwise i would probably go mad.
I had some awesome teachers and some okay ones... some of them really make you speak practice you... correct what you are doing wrong... but... in the other hand I allready had a teacher that all he was trying to teach us was grammar and forcing us to memorize the fu***** phrasal verbs... COME ON... it's okey to show what it is but to ask day after day... week after week for us to study it and do some random tests is just PAINFULL!!
I tryed to do Business English for a while so I can tell you how it is. It is more serious and you have a book, it's MUCH more boring than general english... and that was a BIG problem for me... I just started a english course because coming from my contry you NEED to do one to get a visa... so the only thing I was doing in class was trying to spend some time speaking and practicing not to have some serious conversation about anything... I have a quite good english... probably there are a lot of mistakes in my text here, but I SERIOSLY don't care... if you guys can understand me, it's allright! that's the main point isn't it?
Now seriosly the big point is... do you WANT TO STUDY? go to a kick ass school somewhere, probably the best idea is university or something else... in my opinion the best school is the streets if you have some basics... just LIVE... WORK... PARTY and you will learn...
I would never say that you shouldn't go to SELC, but... be aware... some things are really disturbing... in the other hand there are GREAT... I mean... really GREAT teachers over there... some guys are just so funny I'll never forget!!
The school also offers you a series of things to do if you don't have anything else. for example, partys every 2 or 3 weeks, boat cruises, soccer games, barbeques...
Anyways... I'm almost finishing so I'm glad because more than 4 months would be toooooo much...
Nice review guys... hope to see ya classmates in a while!
Cheers!
SELC - Yes or No?
Hi,
when I came in Selc, I was just pre-intermediate level....so I was able to speak and understand but my grammar was terrible....I wasn't concerned about it....I came to Australia because I have to improve my English...that' s my motto.
The first month was for my absolutely perfect...I very enjoyed my study... had two good teachers /Silvia and Claudia/ and we improved very fast...i think all in class. We had a lot of fun, a lots of games and interesting exercises but not from book of course. We had fun between 2 grammar and teachers prepared properly every class and it was very good. I was sad only because I couldn't choose the elective class on Wednesday ..... (it's not possible for pre-intermediate level) but what can I do....maybe I need higher level of english for beauty or barista....
After test /end of month/ we went up…all from the class…we were very happy – welcome to intermediate level…. I could choose my Wednesday class…I chose barista. Our teacher /Bert/ was very good and we had lots of fun and at the end of course we all knew to make coffee…I feld that I improve my English better in this class than in the the “normal” class, because I can speak all the time…. The last month I chose Australien studies /teacher “Guitar John:/ and I was very good to…we were in Aquarium, Bundeena…very nice…I liked these trips….but it’s truth that was for the students expensive….but I had already job, that I didn’t care about money…
…BUT THIS IS WAS ALL “NICE” ABOUT THE SELC….
But I didn’t came to Australia to learn “how make the coffee” or spend money for traveling…not in school….but I chose these class because the other 4 days in week started be very boring…..
I was very surprised that in the intermediate class were same people as my pre-intermediate class. In school was maybe 4 intermediate class but the school management didn’t decide change or mix students between class…. After 1 month I knew how many brother or sisters have all students, where are living, why they came to Australia…. But it was only one from mistakes of management…
Second day our teacher didn’t come… All in school knew that he is very sick…when we asked about him all said than he is very sick…but the school management /I don’t know who is responsible for the teacher in GE…maybe Simon? Or Kim?...I don’t care who from school/ didn’t decide to sing on other teacher for all time when was our teacher sick… then every day came other teacher and the first lesson was same…. Hi, How are you? My name is …. And I’ll be your teacher for today. And What’ s your name? Where are you from?..... every day same….we didn’t learn nothing…we were all very angry and we complained all the time…actually we didn’t know who was our teacher for the Thursday and Friday…nobody knew …that we had last two days in week every day other teacher too…. Very nice isn’t it? We paid school because we would like to study English but school didn’t have teacher for us…actually 2 teachers….I don’t cake that in Sydney was flu epidemic….I’m client and I paid money for the service and when they could not provide adequate substitute they had to repay all sums paid for this month or offered compensation… I know, that’s strict but that’s live…and business live. We complained all the time, all students from my class but from management – Simon - we heard only SORRY…that’s nice…but I little easy. WE ALL LOST 1 MONTH…WE PAID FOR THIS MONT AND WE DIDN’T LEARN NOTHING….our test was very, very bad..
Because we were very angry we started to ask Simon about the other thinks in school….we paid for the study material..but when I asked Simon about the copy 3 pages from book he said me that I have to pay….ridiculous isn’t it? All books we rent only…teachers sometimes copy few pages and we got 1 notebook…but were we really to spend all this amount that is problem to copy few pages from book? When we complained about it and asked question about study material…than was possible to copy from book…
My third month was very, very boring… I lost energy after 2nd month to study… I tried…but it was very difficult…
In class was a lot of Asian students /only 3 people from other countries/ personally I didn’t have problem with Asian people….but they don’t be able to speak..or they don’t want to …. But we other 3 /Europe, Turkey, Brazil/ we would like to speak…we spent money to study English and no wait 3 min. for each answer….and when we said the answer..teacher said that he knew that we are able to speak but he had to speak with other student…that we had to be quiet. Sometimes was funny because we have to choose answer between 2 …that’s 50-50%...but we had to wait long time than the student answered. Asian student have very good grammar but problem with speaking and pronunciation. I mean no wrong pronunciation like Brazil or Europe people…I mean that they don’t know said P, F and B… most of students in my class had problem to said “PACIFIC” they said “FACIPIC” or something similar….I understand that teacher have to correct all students but in intermediate level heard 20 min. where have to be tongue and how have to open mouth…it’s too much….
May be Asian students need pronunciation class or something similar and I think that teacher have to recommend what each student need, and sort student according to ability of speaking….. But I’m not management of school…I’m only person who paid money for study English and person for who was my last month in school very boring….but I know that it’s not only me…that was almost student from my class and from other class too.
I don’t want to write these same thinks that Jana and Martin but I really agree with all what they wrote:
- air-condition- outside 20C and in class all people in winter jacket…
- PC room – not enough pc, no web cameras
- close Libery or PC rooms on Friday
- not enough microwave – you have to left early from class or you will wait 25 min….
- not enough chairs for lunch /you can’t eat in the class only in student room/
- a lots of wrong answers from school management… like web cameras-it’s only marketing, not enough chairs in student room – it’s not Simons problem /he was responsible for GE/….
- you have to improve English outside school /life situation/
SO WAS HAPPY THAT AFTER 3 MONTH I FINISHED IN SELC and now I study in other school in Sydney but it’s not English school…but I’m there very happy…
I know a lots of students who have to stay in Selc longer time then I…6 monhts or 1 years and I know that those students are very unhappy and their live in Sydney is very boring…
Am I very criticizing? Maybe yes, because I spent MY MONEY /not money my parent/, I had to work home that I could go to Australia…I spent time with choosing school and destination…
I didn’t come to Australia to save money or live there I would like to improve my English only…I have my life in Czech republic and I would like to go back …not now…maybe next year…
Or maybe I’m too old for this school….
I know, that is a lots of mistakes in this text but I don’t cake…because I’m still improving my English :-) I hope that you can understand and it's OK :-)
After all this I can recommend Selc – GE /General Englich/ for max. 3 months…that’s really enough.
Mischa
SELC - Yes or No?
Diky za vsechny nazory... Chci jet nekdy na jare tak se mi kazde info hodi!! Moc diky!!!
SELC - Yes or No?
Other SELC student,
I'm was "Asian" student at SELC. Martin you're a dickhead that is always arrogant and complaining because you're such boring person. I thought so before and after read you blog i think so even more. Why do you think always of negative things.......it's sad for you and more for your girlfriend, she is nice. SELC is not perfect but I had good time there and learnt a lot. The teachers were mostly great, helpful and friendly. One teacher taught me a good phrase which could be good for you to remember dickhead Martin. "You need to take a good look at yourself"
re: SELC - Yes or No?
@2 - totally agree, it is just hard to achieve when you are whole day at school. The same is valid for your job - if you must be at school you cann't work, just during evenings so you are limited to specific kind of jobs such as waiter, cleaner, kitchen hand. Which on the other means that you don't speak in English at work either or just few sentences. Maybe if you can spend whole days at work it should be useful, but still you have to find good job for this.
@9 - nice to hear from you that I'm boring person, luckily that I'm not alone but with a lot of other not just Czech students as well. We also agree that SELC learnt as something but we expected more and expected it in different, more funny way. And this is just fact especially on advanced levels.